There are always three ways; your way, their way, MY WAY. Things will go a lot easier for you if we just do it my way in the first place.
Tuesday, January 26, 2010
Now THAT's a Grill Guard!
That "Prius Shredder" is gonna look great on my Suburban.
-- Sent from my Palm Pre
22 comments:
Bill
said...
A possum. A possum!? A freaking possum did 6k worth of damage to a car?? I've hit a half dozen of the squishy little bastards, they don't even make a good speed-bump.
I bought my Dad a Miller mig welder a few years ago. The thing I didn't realize at the time was he only had 110v going to his shop. So guess who got to help him install the 220? Had to drag the cable through a conduit. Damn that spool was heavy.
DOH! Well, I'll keep looking. The mig didn't look well cared for either, I was totally not surprised when it jamed up, had that "rode hard and put away wet" look.
I'm trying to parse your first question so that it means something to me. What does "split the breaker" mean?
The second question makes some sense.
Here is my understanding of things. Forgive me for being excrutiating in description of the details.
The shop only had a 110 circuit going to it, running off the breaker box in the house. Are you assuming that the shop had it's own meter and service? It did not and still does not have it's own meter or service.
This 110 circuit will power average appliances. It has regular plugs that may or may not have a third prong on them, the third prong being a ground. The main two prongs are small compared to 220 volt prongs and are arranged parrallel to one another on the plug.
Like this -> | |
What we installed was a 220 volt circuit to power the welder. This is a plug with three large prongs that are arranged on the plug end as if they were placed on the circumference of a circle.
Roughly like this _ \ /
A 220v circuit can draw more amperage than a 110. The welder required a 220v circuit. Whether this circuit was three wire or four wire I do not know.
What I do know is that the cable Dad used was huge, imagine garden hose as the diameter of the thing and at least 200 feet long. I had to unspool it in the yard and roll it back up so that it would reel out correctly and not bind.
The we hung up the spool at one end of the conduit with a very nice jerry rigged device so that it could reel out without us having to be there. Oh, I failed to mention the conduit ran uphill, had a couple of severe bends in it and was almost as long as the cable.
I felt like I had wrestled a python all day when we were done.
This is a no-no, but what can be done is to tape up the white(neutral) wire as a hot wire (red or black) and use it on a double breaker. Leave the ground like it is (on the neutral/ground bar). Pound a ground rod into the ground by the shop and wire the shop panel with both hot wires into the main breaker and the copper wire to the neutral/ground bar. Another copper wire goes to the ground rod from the neutral/ground bar. JS-Kit.com Comments
All you are doing is pretending the white wire is red, and the copper wire is white. Well, you make the white wire red w/ electrical tape. Otherwise it's the same as you did with the 4 wire cable.
JAC, that only works if he's got 220 going into his box, and access to that box - he's gotta get onto the other hot bar. If the whole shop is wired off one hot bar and the neutral, then he's gotta pull a cable, like he did. No out of phase hot bar to hit, from the sounds of it.
Oh, I got ya, he has multiple lines run to the garage. Still, that makes the entire circuit 220, better isolate that box! It means rewiring all the boxes on that circuit to other lines, moderate hassle, I'd rather pull cable. Get yourself some communion wafers and a big jar of lube and have at it!
If it's only one line going to the garage, then put in a sub-panel and wire it like JAC said, with the white going to one hot bar and the black going to the other. Run a safety ground and you got it made.
The gauge of wire that was initially strung to the shop could not hangle the current the welder required. Nor the concurrent running of the saw plus air compressor plus heater plus water heater that had subsequently been put in the shop.
You can pick up a miller 140 pretty cheap used. Fact is, so long as you stay with miller, hobart, and lincoln you'll be ok. The miller costs more, but has better controls and there is a miller dealer in every town that will provide good service. The others, not so much. JS-Kit.com Comments
22 comments:
A possum. A possum!? A freaking possum did 6k worth of damage to a car?? I've hit a half dozen of the squishy little bastards, they don't even make a good speed-bump.
Those GenI priusses (priusi?) had a lot of fragile things under them + parts were outrageous.
I looked at the mig.... Pressed the line feed and the dang thing unspooled 10 feet of wire in the housing, nothing out the end of the gun. I passed.
Dude,
A new gun liner is $18.00
I bought my Dad a Miller mig welder a few years ago. The thing I didn't realize at the time was he only had 110v going to his shop. So guess who got to help him install the 220? Had to drag the cable through a conduit. Damn that spool was heavy.
DOH! Well, I'll keep looking. The mig didn't look well cared for either, I was totally not surprised when it jamed up, had that "rode hard and put away wet" look.
AP,
You couldn't just split the breaker to the shop panel? Or was he wanting an upgrade in power capacity?
I'm trying to parse your first question so that it means something to me.
What does "split the breaker" mean?
The second question makes some sense.
Here is my understanding of things. Forgive me for being excrutiating in description of the details.
The shop only had a 110 circuit going to it, running off the breaker box in the house.
Are you assuming that the shop had it's own meter and service?
It did not and still does not have it's own meter or service.
This 110 circuit will power average appliances. It has regular plugs that may or may not have a third prong on them, the third prong being a ground. The main two prongs are small compared to 220 volt prongs and are arranged parrallel to one another on the plug.
Like this -> | |
What we installed was a 220 volt circuit to power the welder. This is a plug with three large prongs that are arranged on the plug end as if they were placed on the circumference of a circle.
Roughly like this
_
\ /
A 220v circuit can draw more amperage than a 110. The welder required a 220v circuit. Whether this circuit was three wire or four wire I do not know.
What I do know is that the cable Dad used was huge, imagine garden hose as the diameter of the thing and at least 200 feet long. I had to unspool it in the yard and roll it back up so that it would reel out correctly and not bind.
The we hung up the spool at one end of the conduit with a very nice jerry rigged device so that it could reel out without us having to be there. Oh, I failed to mention the conduit ran uphill, had a couple of severe bends in it and was almost as long as the cable.
I felt like I had wrestled a python all day when we were done.
I hope JAC will expound on this, as I don't know how to do it either. [Wiring should be a required class in high school]
Somehow you wire it so the 110 volt increase is added twice.
Similar to wiring two 12V batteries in series, you end up with 24 volts but the same amperage.
This makes it clear as mud:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_10/1.html
This is a no-no, but what can be done is to tape up the white(neutral) wire as a hot wire (red or black) and use it on a double breaker. Leave the ground like it is (on the neutral/ground bar). Pound a ground rod into the ground by the shop and wire the shop panel with both hot wires into the main breaker and the copper wire to the neutral/ground bar. Another copper wire goes to the ground rod from the neutral/ground bar.
JS-Kit.com Comments
All you are doing is pretending the white wire is red, and the copper wire is white. Well, you make the white wire red w/ electrical tape. Otherwise it's the same as you did with the 4 wire cable.
JAC, that only works if he's got 220 going into his box, and access to that box - he's gotta get onto the other hot bar. If the whole shop is wired off one hot bar and the neutral, then he's gotta pull a cable, like he did. No out of phase hot bar to hit, from the sounds of it.
He's wired from a 220 box at the main house, Bill. You can just the three wire cable in place of the four, so you don't have to pull another wire.
Oh, I got ya, he has multiple lines run to the garage. Still, that makes the entire circuit 220, better isolate that box! It means rewiring all the boxes on that circuit to other lines, moderate hassle, I'd rather pull cable. Get yourself some communion wafers and a big jar of lube and have at it!
If it's only one line going to the garage, then put in a sub-panel and wire it like JAC said, with the white going to one hot bar and the black going to the other. Run a safety ground and you got it made.
The gauge of wire that was initially strung to the shop could not hangle the current the welder required. Nor the concurrent running of the saw plus air compressor plus heater plus water heater that had subsequently been put in the shop.
He needed that heavier gauge wire.
Gotcha. The above outlined precedure is a stopgap measure at best.
So, JAC, what's the best affordable welder to learn with? I have wood shop tools, but would really like to start welding.
You can pick up a miller 140 pretty cheap used. Fact is, so long as you stay with miller, hobart, and lincoln you'll be ok.
The miller costs more, but has better controls and there is a miller dealer in every town that will provide good service. The others, not so much.
JS-Kit.com Comments
I'll have to run down to our local Gases Plus and see what they have... thanks for the advice.
Make sure you check Craigslist for a used machine, Bob.
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